Closing Plenary

Maria O`Donnell, Zenaida Moya, Peter Eigen, Nuhu Ribadu, Eduardo Stein Barillas, 12th IACC, Plenary transcript, Governance, Development, Sustainability, Energy Market, Financial Sector, Human Security, Climate Change, Natural Resources, Civil Society, Private Sector

Master of ceremony:

Good morning. Welcome to the closing plenary session of this 12th International Anti-Corruption Conference. It has been an intense three days. You have been working hard by attending both the plenary sessions and the workshops. And today, we will present the outputs of this conference. The distinguished participants that conform today’s plenary panel will be called now.

Ladies and Gentlemen, meet the Mayor of Belize City, Zenaida Moya; the head of Nigeria’s Economic and Financial Crimes Commission Nuhu Ribadu; the founder of Transparency International and Chair of the TI Advisory Council Peter Eigen; His Excellency, the Vice President of the Republic of Guatemala Dr. Eduardo Stein Barillas; the moderator for today’s panel, the author and journalist Maria O’Donnell.

Ms. O’Donnell, the audience is yours.

Maria O’Donnell:

Good morning. Welcome to the closing plenary of this 12th International Anti-Corruption Conference. We are now wrapping up three days of debate about the challenges ahead. We have been asking ourselves these days: why is corruption still blocking the way? So, we are now ready to discuss with our panellists the strategies and actions that need to be carried out in order to have a bigger impact. For this closing section, we have very distinguished guests with us. Let me introduce them.

We have Eduardo [Stein] Barillas, Vice President of Guatemala. Oh, we have already gone through this, so I will skip this. Specially, because we are really on a tight schedule. Let me tell you: first, we will be hearing from the panel five minutes presentations from each. The second part is a debate. And panellists will be taking questions from the audience. And we shall then leave the third part to Honourable Justice Mr. Barry O’Keefe, who will chair the third part in which the discussion will be about the adoption of the recommendations of the Final Declaration of the Conference. Mr. Barillas will be speaking first. I know, I have been told, that he likes to sing, but he is also a well-known advocate for human rights, democracy and non-discrimination policies. He was sworn in his current office in January 2004 and he is also a former Minister of the Republic of Guatemala. He held that post during the signature of the Peace Accord.

So, Mr. Barillas:

Eduardo Stein Barillas:

Muy buenos días. Good morning!

Nos han pedido que dejemos a un lado el protocolo para ganar tiempo. Quisiera, antes que nada, reconocer el valor, la estámina y la energía de quienes están aquí hoy en la mañana en esta sesión de clausura.

Para un gobierno en ejercicio es particularmente importante el obtener la experiencia de personas que han desarrollado políticas y programas en contra de la corrupción, que puedan sugerir caminos concretos para combatirla desde el punto de vista de la autoridad pública. Ya en estos días se ha recorrido un amplio camino en donde se han visto, desde el punto de vista de la legislación, aquellos esfuerzos que desde distintas áreas del gobierno se han ido desarrollando para tener cada vez mejores códigos y mejores leyes sobre transparencia y sobre la entrega de cuentas públicas. I am sorry to say, we do not have a good word in Spanish for accountability: entrega de cuentas públicas o responsabilidad pública.

Pero también, a lo largo de estas sesiones, se ha destacado, y quisiera enfatizar eso hoy nuevamente, el papel decisivo de la sociedad civil organizada. Hablando desde la experiencia de América Central, nosotros vimos una sociedad civil muy fuerte, muy vigorosa actuando en contra de los atropellos a los derechos humanos durante los años de la guerra, hace apenas 15 o 20 años. Curiosamente, cuando se recuperan los espacios democráticos de actuación, la sociedad civil organizada perdió fuerza. Y le tomó mucho tiempo encontrar aquellos elementos de agenda que podían, en efecto, iluminar a la sociedad en su conjunto a partir del trabajo de estas y estos líderes y de sus organizaciones.

Hay todavía en América Central, y en América Latina en general, un amplio margen para trabajar en favor de los derechos humanos. Nos falta mucho pero es insuficiente, y hemos insistido en eso, el que se trabaje solamente a través de la reforma de las leyes. Por eso fue tan importante el tener aquí hace dos días a los presidentes de América Central. Porque más allá de la ley hay una voluntad política que cada uno de los mandatarios y sus equipos deben poner a trabajar en la práctica con procedimientos que, no solo desde una vía reglamentaria en donde hay por ley sanciones públicas, sino también desde el brazo de la moral y de la ética puedan, en efecto, obligar con su propio ejemplo a comportamientos públicos de transparencia.

Y quisiera terminar estos comentarios iniciales enfatizando nuevamente el papel de la sociedad civil organizada. En la medida en que ella, a través de diferentes modalidades de organización, pueda seguir vigilante en un esfuerzo de monitorea pública, o que algunos llaman auditoría social. En esa medida, todos los aspectos financieros, todos los esfuerzos de programas y proyectos de cooperación internacional que se ejecutan acá; todos los programas y proyectos que los diferentes ministerios de la acción pública del gobierno. Pero, sobre todo, también, una vigilancia al congreso o a la asamblea legislativa y, sobre todo, una vigilancia al organismo judicial. Si no tenemos una justicia pronta y cumplida en la que toda la ciudadanía se sienta aptamente representada, será muy difícil que exista el nivel de confianza para la denuncia pública. Porque el temor se instala en las organizaciones.

Para países, además como Guatemala, como México, Bolivia, Perú, Ecuador, en cierta forma también Colombia y Venezuela, con poblaciones indígenas muy numerosas, con muchas lenguas, es también indispensable el que estos procesos de entrega de cuentas públicas y de auditoría social incorporen esa multiculturalidad.

Muy honrados de haberles tenido acá en Guatemala durante estos días y espero que todas y todos tengan un feliz retorno a casa.

[Applause]

Maria O’Donnell:

Thank you, Mr. Vice President. We shall invite now Ms. Zenaida Moya to the podium. She is the Mayor of Belize City. She has been a Mayor since March 2006. She has a Master of Business Administration from the Detroit Michigan University and she has spent most of her life working in public sector.

[Applause)

Zenaida Moya:

Good morning everybody.

It is an honour to addressing you this morning as I get to offer you a perspective from a small nation as Belize, which is situated immediately just East of Guatemala, and which has gained independence since only September 21, 1981, of which we have been given the honour tasks of governing ourselves in a fair, honest and transparent manner.

However, after 25 years of political independence, Belize has been recently ranked by Transparency International 66 out of 163 countries with a corruption rating of 3.7. This, of course, is after a steady decline in the Corruption’s Index from 60th in 2004 to now 66th in 2006.

Now, what has contributed to this result and what can we do to address this? Let me state this as a former Public Service Senior Manager and Trade Union Leader: I had the vital role of advising, criticizing, implementing and constructively protesting against institutionalised corruption. In one instance, however, as a Head of Department, trying to do my part to ensure that I uncovered, publicised and stood firm against corruption in one of the largest cooperatives managed by a family member of the Prime Minister, I was, however, demoted from Head of Department to Head of Unit.

Thereafter, during my involvement in the Belize National Trade Union Congress, we also attempted to put an end to the rampant corruption and political abuses in Belize through huge protests, industrial strikes, shutdowns and other such forms of protests, public forums, dissemination of information, negotiations between the government and the National Trade Union Congress. We were hindered due to the lack of political will for a constructive criticism. We were also hindered by an apparent corruption between key union leaders supported by the government at the height of industrial action and key government officials, in an effort to sabotage our success.

Other key leaders like me suffered a tremendous amount of victimization, slander, propaganda and threads by the government and its group of stalwarts, military and law enforcement officers.

As a Head of Unit, I was thereafter subject to further disciplinary action with a view to dismissal due to being one of the key trade union leaders leading the industrial and protest actions against the government. In that intervention, however, I was thereafter offered a proposal to request and accept retirement in the public interest, a proposal I refused and which, consequently, led to concerned efforts by our attorney, trade union family, the media and the public for a full withdrawal of all charges against me. And I am happy to say that we were successful.

After several months of discontent however, with the lack of honouring of the joint Trade Union Congress and Government of Belize Negotiation Agreement, I later accepted the request by the opposition party to run as their Belize City mayoralty candidate in the March 1, 2006 municipal elections under the platform of transparency, accountability and good governance. I was once again successful with an overwhelming 2 to 1 victory at the polls.

Whilst it is clear that intimidation, victimization, control, and influence of large private owners, corrupt accumulation of public wealth by key political leaders, their families, their friends, and allies and their corrupt influence and violation of laws are key challenges to the reduction of corruption in Belize, the apparent indifference of a huge proportion of the population in educating themselves on issues that affect them also pose a grave challenge. This is even when the media, working alongside the different organizations, disseminate information about key issues that affect the equitable distribution of wealth.

Clearly, then, we have an urgent job to do if we are to put an arrest to corruption and address the gap between expectation and realities of good governance and development. Some key solutions to overcoming these obstacles include:

  1. ongoing and effective education and dissemination of information on anti-corruption initiatives by government, civil society, the media and relevant international organizations such as Transparency International, so as to ensure a participatory approach to reducing corruption and to ensure a just sharing of power and responsibility by all;

  2. ongoing sensitization of the public as to what they should be using to measure government’s performance, whether it be Transparency International’s corruption rating, the UN Millennium Development Goals, specific economic and social indicators, implementation and compliance of different anti-corruption legislation, and other reforms;

  3. we can also use a unified approach to helping countries adopt legislation to protect whistleblowers and a local recognition of whistleblowers, journalists, and anti-corruption activists and practitioners, so as to inspire further integrity, trust, and respect among them, and to encourage them and others to continue to stand up against corruption and abuse; and finally

  4. a commitment by all anti-corruption practitioners and parties that the Declaration agreed upon at this Conference will be implemented and monitored to its fullest.

I will end by challenging all of you to keep corruption in the forefront of discussion and to unite our efforts to continue the fight against corruption; for this is the only way we will be able to ensure a fairer and corrupt-free world. I thank you and may God bless you all.

[Applause]

Maria O’Donnell:

Thank you very much. Our next speaker is known as Nigeria’s Chief Corruption Fighter. He is the Executive Chairman of Nigeria’s Economic and Financial Crimes Commission. Under his administration, the Commission has confiscated millions of dollars and charged prominent bankers, former ministers and high ranking political parties’ members. He recently told the BBC -I was struck by this figure- that over 380 billion dollars had either been stolen or wasted by Nigerian governments since independence in 1960.

Mr. Nuhu Ribadu.

[Applause]

Nuhu Ribadu:

Thank you, thank you Maria. A very good morning to all of you.

Let me start by thanking the organizers and the Government of Guatemala for the opportunity. People like us are benefiting a lot and we have seen the changes taking place in the world in respect of fighting corruption. We are very grateful because we are the ones who are suffering. We are the ones under the civil angle of what corruption is doing to the world.

I am a physical person involved in anti-corruption in a country that probably suffered more than any country in the world as a result of corruption. Nigeria is a country that has been denied literally everything as a result of corruption. But Nigeria is an example of most of the developing countries. In the last three years we worked hard to change things, we worked hard to confront corruption. This is probably the most difficult thing we can do in the world today. Because people have made money out of it, people have become part of it; they control the institutions, structures, media and everything. When you come and you say you are going to stop it, this is probably the most difficult thing that you can do in the world today.

But we have done fairly well in the last three years. We have been able to more or less place Nigeria into a theatre of war against corruption. In the three years of the work we have done, we have been able to bring ministers to justice, the President, the Vice President of Nigeria, the President of the National Assembly, the Chief Law officers; today, we have well over a 120 convictions in a country that never had one. We recovered 5 billion dollars in the three years of the work we have done. We recovered 2 billion from one individual: a former President of our country. And we got the money from outside Nigeria.

From the corruption that takes place in our country, like Maria said I told the BBC, probably 80 percent of the money goes out of the country. It goes to the safe havens of the western world. We want to ask for support. Unless we get support, unless those who control where these resources are being kept assist us, we will not be able to defeat corruption in our own countries. These people take this money and they take it out. And they use the same money to continue to compromise the process back home, make it impossible for us to bring justice and then to establish rule of law and order in our own countries.

We need the support of the International Community. We need the support of the powerful countries. We also need the support of civil society. We are trying in Nigeria to bring the civil society in partnership to all this fight against corruption. Today, we have signed a sort of memorandum with about 58 of these civil society organisations in our country. We are working hard to ensure that it is not just a law enforcement work, but it is a collective work. And the best thing that you can do about it is to bring in the civil society. Transparency International has done extremely well in bringing the issue of corruption to the forefront of the global agenda. It has to be carried to the lowest level. This is what we are trying to do in our country.

We are also faced today with the difficulty of how we are going to sustain this work we are doing. Today, in our country, we are going through a transitional period. If we are not careful, the powerful ones, the corrupt ones can come back. And they will take us back. And if they take us back, it is probably going to be worse than what we have seen before. We need the support of the world for us to be able to sustain, to continue with these efforts.

And Nigeria is an example of what is happening in the rest of the developing countries. What is happening in Nigeria is more or less exactly a replica in almost all the developing countries. We are in a transitional period, a very difficult period in our history. We need the world to stand by us, to support us, to see how we can change our own countries. The best way to fight poverty, the best way to fight diseases, the killings, the horrible things that are happening in our poor countries is to fight corruption. The best way you can sort out poverty is [inaudible] of all make corruption history. And that is what we are doing. Some of us who are physical people, doing the work on the ground, are finding it extremely, extremely difficult. I have lost people, key people in the course of this war we are doing. We have been [inaudible], we have been called names, whatever you can imagine in terms of blackmail; we go trough it. Our own energy to continue, our own hope lies in people like [those] in Transparency International, and the International Community. If it is done by us we may have chances to survive. And if we survive, we are likely to going to change the continent. And if we change the continent, we probably will change more.

Thank you very much.

[Applause]

Maria O’Donnell:

Thank you. You probably all know our next speaker, Peter Eigen. He is the founder and Chair of the Advisory Council of Transparency International. And since 2005, he has chaired the International Advisory Group of the Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative. And he has joined the Africa Progress Panel, too. Peter:

[Applause]

Peter Eigen:

Thank you very much for letting me speak at this occasion. I must say, about ten years ago we were given the responsibility in Beijing to take on the contribution to organizing this International Anti-Corruption Conference, and I never would have dreamed that this would become such a powerful forum for bringing together governments, private sector and civil society worldwide. I must say, I am very touched about the effect that we are here together in a situation where our coalition against corruption becomes more and more forceful.

The events of the last four days make me optimistic that you will be able to overcome some of these obstacles just in the way of fighting corruption, in order to fight poverty, in order to fight violence, in order to fight bad governments worldwide. I am also extremely pleased about the powerful development of the movement which has been at the root of this work in Transparency International. And I want to congratulate Huguette Labelle for this wonderful conference and the tremendous power, energy and professionalism which are present in this movement.

So, both of these things make me extremely optimistic. I would like to focus on one particular aspect which came through at every meeting of this conference. And that aspect is the openness of governments and the openness of the private sector to invite and include an organized civil society to participate in fighting corruption. This began already with the Opening Statement of President [of Guatemala Óscar] Berger; the Vice President [of Guatemala] continued with his very strong plea for a powerful rule of civil society organizations; it continued with the statements of international organizations, the President of the IDB, the Managing Director of the World Bank and the Secretary General of the OAS. All of them focused very much on this question which, I must say in particular in Europe, a very short time ago was practically unheard: this invitation of organized civil society to the table of global governance in order to overcome the lacunae of governments in areas like fighting corruption.

Of course, what we also learned during the course of this conference was that this is a challenge also for the civil society. It means: civil society has to grow into this role of being a responsible participant in good governance. The Vice President pointed out again how difficult it is in a country which comes out of civil war to overcome polarisation and the conflict existing within civil society. We have similar phenomena in other parts of the world. But it became quite clear that this is recognized as a challenge for civil society; that we have to become more transparent, that the governance of civil society has to become much more participatory and open; that we have to become much more confident in the areas in which we work, and therefore we have to make alliances with think tanks, with universities; also to train the leadership of civil society in the future generations.

And then, I would say, last but not least, civil society has to learn to calibrate this difficult question on how close you can get to governments, to private sector, to the other actors of governance. Now these are all things that we discuss with great professionalism and openness here. I must say, I learned a lot and sure many of you learned a lot. And if we can have heroes like Nuhu Ribadu or John Githongo or the others that we honoured in our Award Ceremonies yesterday and the day before yesterday, then we can count on making contribution to create a better world. With the head of the civil society, a world in which there is less poverty, a world in which there is better harnessing of resources, has less conflict, there is less violence, and there is, in general, a sustainable future for all of us and for future generations.

Thank you very much.

[Applause]

Maria O’Donnell:

Since I have been the moderator of this session I have the privilege to throw some questions before we open the floor for questions. Ribadu makes such a strong call for developed countries, where the money of the corrupt people goes. He made a strong call for collaboration. I was thinking whether you could tell us more about it. What type of collaboration do you need? What type of collaboration you are not getting? What happens with the money you recover? Does it go to a specific fund -that money recovered from corruption?

Nuhu Ribadu:

Thank you. Like I said, probably 80 percent of the grand corruption that takes place in my country and by extension in Africa, the money goes out. They don’t keep the money there. And when it goes out there, it goes out of our own control and out of our own jurisdiction. As of our last count, our calculation is that probably Nigeria alone lost over 300 billion dollars as a result of this. Over 300 billion dollars! Our country is an oil-producing country. In the last three to four decades, we earned over 500 billion dollars. But what you see on the ground, physical, is not up to 20 percent. The money is not there, it is not there in the country at all! And we have fought on one person who took about 6 billion dollars. And it is all out there. We have recovered about two billion. And we think that about four [billions] are still out there.

We have of course support from some countries: I must mention the UK, Switzerland and to some extend the United States, as an example of countries that are helping us now. We do have problems with countries like France! We hope that others will listen! Because: if we do not stop this money from being taken out, we can never succeed in stopping corruption in our country. As long as there is a certain level where some people will take the money and lend it to be protected, others will continue to steal. And they are also using the money to fight us back. We have a case now in Nigeria: we are following some people that are extremely, extremely powerful. They have money, they have the resources and we do not have any control over this. We are going to go into elections. They are likely going to interfere with this. They will compromise the process.

The money is out there. And the moment you have money, you do what you like in the developing countries. While we do not have control over this money, the money is out there. Even if we are going to do anything on ground, as long as they come with these resources into our own countries, they have a very good chance of defeating us on ground.

Two: we have of course support from law enforcement agencies in the world. The [London] Metropolitan Police, they took a couple of cases from us. They arrested about two Nigerians, Governors in Nigeria. One had in London alone about 13 accounts. One single person! The second one, we discovered that he had accounts in eight different countries. And about 50 billion Nairas have been identified so far. But the most important thing is the very moment they arrested them, others stopped taking money out of the country.

We send a message that today, somehow, the doors are being closed. Our only problem is that other doors are being opened now by taking the money to the East. We have witnessed a flow of money to the Far East: to Singapore, to Hong Kong and indeed to even mainland China. We were shocked to see [how] over 600 million pounds went out from Nigeria to China. It never happened before. So as we are fighting one side, other areas are being opened. We want the International Community to be aware of it. But more importantly, like I said, until there is no safe haven for that money, it will be very difficult for us to stop those who are stealing right now.

The Mobutus in those days, in the 80s and 90s stole money. They took it out and they enjoyed it with their whole families. And nothing happened to them. Subsequently we had the Abachas, the [inaudible]. And if you are not careful, if nothing is done, we will continue to have the Mobutus, we will continue to have the Abachas. We will continue to have…I should not, I don’t like to mention names. But those of us from Africa know what I am talking about. There are still leaders who are taking [the money] out. There are still leaders who are continuing [stealing] and it is due to their impunity we are complaining. Unless something is done there is no way, we do not have the capacity to fight internally. The world has to come in and support us.

And I think the best way to go about it is really to go out of the way. It is not easy, because most of the times, the financial institutions do enjoy their own [pause] they do not get interference from governments. If you go and ask for support, they will tell you that the financial institutions are independent, they do not have control. If anyone takes money, and takes it to a bank, governments do not have the right to interfere with that.

But today, the anti-money laundering laws in the world, the United Nations Convention Against Corruption require that financial institutions must know their own customers. Financial institutions should be aware to the issue of [inaudible], political response. And these are not very critical. If the banks and the other financial institutions in the West wanted to help and assist, it would not be very difficult for them to close their accounts. "Know your customer” is something that, I think, all of us must take seriously.

Governments who also go out of this way to support these poor countries: if you want to help developing countries, help them to improve their own governments, help them to fight corruption, help them to do things properly and correctly by themselves. Continuing to give aid, continuing to give the peanut, will not help. It will only compound the problem. We are capable of taking care of ourselves; we are capable of doing this correctly and properly. The only difference between us and the rest of the world is just how we handle, how we manage our own affairs. We want to do it by how the rest of the world is doing it. Help us to ensure that we do it properly and correctly.

Thank you very much.

[Applause]

Maria O’Donnell:

Thank you very much. Just before we open the floor for questions I want to throw one question and I ask you to please answer quickly, so we have a little time for debate from the audience. The Mayor spoke about the apparent indifference of the huge portion of the public. And I was thinking in Latin America, our problem is that many Presidents that have been prosecuted, and have been kicked out of the office because of big corruption scandals are now going back to office voted by people, elected by people. They are very popular! You have cases of Presidents that are going back to office. And I was thinking the other day - I heard it in a workshop- that in Puerto Rico corruption crimes do not prescribe. Not everyone agrees on, but could something like that be proposed to make sure people do not forget about what these officials did?

Peter Eigen:

Thank you very much. I am afraid, this does not only happen in Latin America. We have seen how in Europe the immunity of heads of government has been used in Italy, in France to avoid being brought to Justice for egregious corruption in some cases. I believe that indeed, here again the civil society with the help of the media can play an important role. I remember that some of the Presidents who are coming back to office here in Latin America were sought for extradition from Colombia, for instance, or from other parts of the world. And I feel that indeed a lot can be done to enforce, for instance, the rules of the OAS Convention, to enforce the rules of the UN Convention Against [Transnational and Organized] Crime, which would allow us to make sure that none of the signatory states will allow cleptocrats to seek refuge on their territory. But the civil society has to help to monitor these Conventions with the media playing an important role on this. And I feel there is indeed a lot one can do.

In particular, we have to reinforce one thing which came out in this session here, very, very strongly. The barrier system in the society, the culture of the society has to be activated so that people do not admire corrupt leaders. Because it can get things done and re-elect them. That they learn that corruption is the cause for their poverty; [corruption] is the cause for violence and conflicts that we have to face. Once we succeed on this, I think we will over time also succeed in avoiding politicians coming back to power that have been corrupt in the past.

Zenaida Moya:

I wanted to say that for many years, the fact that persons just [inaudible] to the actual elections, there has been a lot of bribery. To a large extend, most of the politicians know that they can get away by giving a little 50 dollars, a little 25 dollars to an individual and get that person’s vote. It is important then that we try to ensure that we reach persons at all levels. Some of us in the urban areas we might have the TV; we might have a lot of information that will inform us of who we should be electing to lead our country. But to a large extend, those in the rural areas primarily, they would keep voting the same corrupted individuals. And we look at that and we say why? But, I recall, once during the height of protest and industrial action, I spoke to this man from one of the rural areas and I asked him; I just wanted to get his perspective on the entire protest spirit because it was such a turbulent period in Belize, it was on the media, there were heavy protests in different parts of the country. And I asked this man; he was telling me some words and I said: what is your perspective on it? And he said: on what? And I said: on the whole protests, actions and everything. He said: what protest action? I could not believe it because that still boggles. Here it is, this individual: corruption and the abuse of political power and the misuse of public funds clearly affected him. This person will continue to live on demotion because of such corruption. It was on the radio, on the television, in the newspapers, in the fliers, right in your face in the different municipalities. And yet, this individual knew nothing. So, however we can do to continue to strengthen the community, the grass-roots organizations to reach out to these individuals will definitely be a stepping stone. I know that Transparency International could definitely play a huge role and again I am hoping that they will assist smaller countries who have, of course, a huge rural population.

Eduardo Stein Barillas:

Just a brief comment that might tie some of the former participations. As you well know, our Justice System is requesting Mexico to extradite former President Alfonso Portillo to Guatemala so that he faces criminal charges. Some of the criminal proofs were provided internationally by the banking system precisely because of the new legislation against money laundering. And that has been enormously helpful because as you [Nuhu Ribadu] well said, part of the money went abroad to Europe.

Maria O’Donnell:

Thank you very much. We shall take your questions now. So, please, anyone who has a question raise your hand and we will be sending you the microphone. The lady over there, please.

1st Question/ comment from the floor:

Il y a eu une équivoque parce que le troisième intervenant, il parlait du Nigéria et pas du Niger, c’est deux pays différents; c’est vrai nous sommes frères, nous sommes proches, mais il est important que les personnes qui sont ici sachent que les chiffres sont du Nigeria et pas du Niger (c’est la première observation). La deuxième observation que je voudrais faire c’est par rapport à ce que j’ai entendu justement par rapport aux fonds qui étaient spoliés et récupérés par le Nigeria. Aux niveaux des sections africaines de Transparency International nous avons fait une déclaration à Niaga il y a environ trois ans qui concerne justement le rapatriement des fonds qui ont était justement spoliés. Maintenant le challenge qui s’oppose à nous c’est de savoir une fois que ces fonds seront rapatriés, qu’elles sont à disposition au niveau national à l’état, et que ces fonds ne changent pas de mains. Que ces fonds ne soient pas encore apatriés de nouveau ailleurs. Je pense que cela c’est le plus important au niveau de ce qui nous concerne: Où sont les domaines identifiées prioritaires vers lesquelles les fonds doivent être orientées? Parce qu’il ne s’agit pas de rapatrier seulement les fonds et que cela change de règle et repart par une autre voie. Voilà ce que je voulais faire comme observation. Je pense que c’est important au niveau de transparence ; la réflexion est en cours et il conviendrait de l’achever pour qu’on puisse identifier les dispositifs et les standards dans ce sens là. Je vous remercie.

Maria O’Donnell:

Thank you very much. I will beg people from the audience to make really short questions, because we are really running out of time here.

Nuhu Ribadu:

Thank you. I forgot to answer what we do with the repatriated or recovered money? In Nigeria, for example, what we got from Switzerland was put into specific projects: they are taken and identified as projects that are financed by the recovered money. In almost all the recoveries that we make now we ensure docClosing Plenary

Brazil 2012

Brazil 2012

IACC Video

IACC Video

FaceBook

FaceBook